Transcript
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How'd you feel about the chef event went to last night or two nights ago?
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That was two nights ago.
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Yeah.
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Welcome to another episode of the Melanated Married Millionaires in the making show, aka the M4 show king. Where can they tap in with us?
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Y'all can tap in with us at www.them4number4show.com. Also tap in with us on Instagram at the M4 Show. If you've got topics that you want to see, hit us in the DMs. We appreciate you.
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Now, let's get into the episode. That was fantastic.
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How so?
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It was like. And so I think it's interesting because, like, you go over someone's house for dinner, and I feel like it's usually a different type of experience than if you were to go to, like, a restaurant. It feels more homey, like, for sure. Yeah. Like, when we eat here, we on paper plates. No shame, you know? But I feel like it was a mixture of that homey feeling because it was still very, like, homey, just talking, you know, that type of thing. But the food experience was very elevated, for sure. Yeah. It was like you're at a restaurant, one being served. I also feel like at home, it's like, okay, you grab your plate, you serve yourself. The being served. It's small, but, like, the psychology of it makes you feel like, oh, this was prepared for me.
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And then, yeah, the three courses, like, we had a salad. We had some Guyanese chicken and a pasta. Homemade pasta. Like, and then, you know that cookies and homemade ice cream. Like, the fact that everything was one homemade was crazy, but elevated it and it made you feel good about eating it. But, yeah, just.
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We gotta talk about the fact that there was no chicken eggs and he used, like, goose. Duck eggs.
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No, wait. No, you're right. It was. He had both. There was duck egg and goose eggs. I think he said he'd use goose eggs for something else for the pasta. But, yeah, he was using duck egg for the cookies. Cookies. Like, I've never heard of that.
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Another level.
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But, yeah, it was. It was cool just seeing, like, dang, there's, like, these people. It was like it was a thing. Like, were the newbies of the group. But like, oh, this is a thing, you know, coming around, just talking. Like it was. I liked that. It wasn't. Everybody wasn't, like, on their phones. Like, it was. They were just talking, like, talking about random stuff, but nonetheless, like, talking. Yeah, I really. I really enjoyed the experience.
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Good vibe. I feel like you left inspired. What Was it about that experience that left you? I feel like we go to the now when we go to Michelin star restaurant. I feel like you also leave kind of inspired, but I feel like there's a different level of inspiration leaving Chef Greg's house than I've seen in other places.
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Because I think for me, again, it's like I associate the Michelin star experience, the multi courses, the everything being homemade sauces, homemade salad dressings, with a restaurant that's making hella money because you got the time, you got the resources to do that at home. Like, God bless their heart, we didn't pay a dime. We brought gifts. Right. But we didn't pay anything. Like the fact that this is literally a labor of love, like, that you just do at home because you want to do this. Like, that was different for me.
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And I think that's what would, like, turn on the switch of, like, yes, you cook as a love language, but, you know, it doesn't have to be every, every meal, but every now and then, like, take it up a notch and really show that, like, oh, I've prepared this meal for you know, And I think just making everything from scratch just really. I associate the work and effort that goes into cooking with love. So I feel like seeing that extra step of, again, like, making your own sauces and salad dressings and pasta and like, just everything being homemade, like, that's a labor. And so very much a labor of love that I think is well appreciated among the people that eat it.
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So I think that was just inspiring to me of, like, okay, you know, every now and then, take it up a notch when you're trying to. Cause I do like the feeling of going to a restaurant and being served, but I also like the feeling of serving and want to give that to people too. So, yeah, I just felt. It felt good for me to experience that not in a restaurant setting, but it also made me like, wow, I want to do this for people.
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Yeah. I feel like what it is and it's. I've experienced this for myself. I think when a business does it seems like there's a lot of hands in the. In the kitchen. It seems like there's a lot of resources. So it seems a little bit distant when you see a person, one person that you know that you see that seems normal to you, and they're doing this extraordinary stuff. It makes the extraordinary possible and real. Real for you as well.
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Like a dad, like, just a regular guy. Like, you got. I feel like that's the Other thing that, like, oh, I don't have time to cook.
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I got kids.
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Like, and it's like, no, this man has kids. Like, he's got a wife, he's got a business. Like, all these things. And he's still making all these things from scratch. Like, I see a Nara Smith on TikTok. I've showed you her videos and just like, she's being sensationalized because it's crazy that she makes all these things homemade. But to see it in a real life setting of like, again, she make.
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Like water from scratch.
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Not water.
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And you first you get the hydrogen.
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Then you pair it with the oxygen. No, but she did make gum. Like Boba. Like, just things that's like, just girl just go to the store. But again, like, I think she's anomaly because she spends so much time making these things for her family. But to see that in real life, like, okay, that's cool on TikTok. It's entertaining, whatever. I'm sure part of that is for real life. I'm sure some of it is for production to be able to see how it can look like real life. Like the fact that his daughter came down and was like, I made. What did she say? Honey Honeycomb pancakes or honey butter, some type of thing. And I'm like, this is like maybe like a 1012 year old daughter. I'm just like, you made what? Like, that's crazy.
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And just to see, like, wow, he's also rubbing off on his family and like the things I imagine, his kids just have a palette. That's crazy. But yeah, just seeing how it can be translated into real life was cool because it's like, oh, I could do that.
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I also like to see how excellent is. What's the word for it? It's contagious, right? I think you show excellence to your kids and then they grow up thinking this is the standard honeycomb from scratch. Pancakes are the standard goose eggs. Inside of my spaghett, whatever the noodles is a standard. And then they just grow up. Excellent. And it's why it's important to have that network of people around you that are at that high level. And I think that's something that I learned, or not learned, but got re inspired through.
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When went to Tulsa and we had our teammates at David Buster's and some great conversations were being had, but particularly there were these two team members that they were talking about habits and how you are, what you do consistently and you're the only one that's getting in the way of your Own goals. And I was sitting there listening. I was trying not to like being. Being like the boss. I don't want to, like, interject inside a conversation and sway a certain way. So I was listening for most of it. But it reminded me a lot of how I used to think when I was fresh out of college, more. A little bit more hustler, focused, a little bit more on myself. Hungry, broke, right? And I think there's a certain mindset that came with that.
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And I think as we've gotten a house and we've gotten month long vacations and we're wine tasting in Cape Town, I got uncomfortable. So it was good to kind of get connected to that hunger again. And I think that's shifted my habits coming back from Tulsa, my workout habits, my working habits, how much I'm writing. So, yeah, I think the people that you keep around you, the excellence that you keep around you is contagious. And I think it's important that we continue to make sure that as we do get successful, we continue to network and be around people that push us a little bit. I think Chef Greg did that. I think people in our team did that. People in our life do that. So I think we just need to be intentional about spending more time with those circles of people.
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Yes, absolutely. Even, like, think about, like, Daniel, the fact that you run in these half marathons. Because it wouldn't be me.
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That's a fact. 5K. You know, you were strong with the 5K I got you, but now the 5K, that's a practice. I'll run a five. I ran two 5K this week.
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Must be nice.
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I ran two 5K.
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I'm trying to get to a 10K. I can. I could do a 10K. That's my. That is the maximum. I six miles.
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I need a. I'm going to run a 10K next week. You. You gotta run with me.
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So that's my half marathon. So am I just gonna go and run a half marathon next week? No, I can work my way there, though.
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Understood? Understood, baby.
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I'll start with a mile.
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There you go. There you go. Mile next week. So if we run the same time, you'll just stop and I'll just keep going and I'll see you in an hour.
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See you. See you when you get back.
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That works. But yeah, a lot of great conversations. Great's a strong word. There were a lot of interesting conversations at the dinner. I think marriage and relationships kept coming up. In your opinion, what is the hardest part about either being married or Marriage that you've experienced and, like, pretend like, I'm not your husband when you say this. So you can hurt my feelings if you need to.
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Right.
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I'm just. I'm just a guy with a beard.
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Just a guy that I'm hanging out with in my backyard.
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Yeah.
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Interesting.
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Don't talk to strangers.
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Yeah.
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What's the. What's the hardest part of marriage for you?
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I think effective communication is probably the most important and hardest part because it sounds so simple. Like, just communicate. What's the problem? But like, effective communication and learning because you can't just say the first thought that comes to your head at all times. That's.
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Don't even say the third one.
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Just wait. Like, filter it through about six times before you get to what is going to be effective for your partner. So I think one learning, which hopefully you've done before marriage. But that's just a continual learning process. Can people change? But I think learning what is effective.
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Communication, what's effective in our marriage, I want to. I want to get narrow.
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So, like, we've had. We've had situations in the past or conversations in the past where I've said something that is probably the first thought in my head. Like, you've proposed an idea. Right. And I was just kind of like, nah. But no, that doesn't work. Right. And, you know, you expressed how that kind of shrunk you a little bit. You know, I'm paraphrasing your words, but made you feel like I didn't believe in you. Made you feel like I didn't support your dreams. Because I was just so quick to say, like, no. So, like, I had to take that and be like, okay, when there is an idea proposed, which happens all the time because we have ideas, right. And I want to make sure we're fostering that environment because that's how we got here in the first place. Right? Was an idea.
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So I want to make sure that my communication style is not dampering that. So right now when you bring an idea, I stop. I think about it. What do I like about this idea? Do I think. What do I think about this idea? Could work. Where are some holes in the idea or what questions do I have about the idea? Because I know you also value that. But I have to frame it now. I frame it in the form of a question, right? Have we thought about this? What are we going to do in this scenario? You know, But I also, like, practice the sandwich method that I know you do with me too. Right? Interesting idea. Or, you know, Hoya. I like the idea, you know, it could work in this way.
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I'm also thinking about, you know, how are we going to tackle these things, right? And I think that package seems to be a more effective way to communicate to you. That doesn't shut you down. It's not like, okay, guess that wasn't a good idea. It's like, okay, this could work. But here's some things again, posing it as a question you're now wanting to answer. You're now searching through, right. And wanting to answer it, which I think brings more out of you rather than shutting you down. So that's an example of, like, how I've had to change my communication style to make sure that it is effective for the end goal, which should always be, you know, either a new idea we can do or, you know, just furthering us, progressing us as a couple, as a marriage, as a unit.
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That's good. I like thinking about or your approach of what do I want to get out of this conversation? Because I think effective communication means that you're going to use a different method. Depending on who you're talking to, depending on the situation of even us two talking together, there might be some ideas where it's like, okay, I absolutely don't want him to do this idea at all. How do I communicate that there might be other ideas where it's like, okay, it's a decent one. It could bear some fruit. How do I communicate that? Yeah, it's a learning process for sure, right?
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Because to your point, like, it doesn't mean that there are some ideas that I'm going to pretend to entertain when I'm like, not, right? So I'm like, nope, I'm going to veto that Because I'm just like, there's no world where that's going to work. So still making sure that I'm expressing my true thoughts, but putting it in a package that makes sense. And again, it's going to get to the end goal of what we want. And I think that's different, again, than the end goal. Thinking selfishly, what do I want out of this scenario is different than what's best for us. I think that's another switch that I think I had to make once we're married is, it's not what you want out of this. It's what is best for us. You know, at the end of the.
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Day, I say, what do.
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You think is the most difficult part?
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What do I think is the most difficult part of marriage? I think it's the Concept of identity. Identity. You know, I think when you, before you get married, you're you're, you're an individual and yes, you are dating this other person as well. Especially for us because were dating for so long. So I think already the merging of identities or the forming of a couple identity was already there. But I think generally when you become married, there's a unified identity. And for me it's finding who's Devon authentically. And we know Sinclair authentically is afraid of bugs no matter what. You okay?
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Yep. I get this little drive by, not.
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The bug, drive by the flyby with the June bug. But yeah, it's finding like who is Devon authentically and then who is Devon in a marriage with Sinclair where those two overlap. What are things that I'm not willing to compromise on with my own personal identity? What are things you're not willing to compromise on with your own personal identity? And what are things that I know I've become because now I'm a husband to Sinclair.
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What are some of those things like you're not willing to compromise on your identity?
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It's a great question. I still haven't fully thought through those things yet. As far as I think I'm still in self discovery mode. Like the past year and a half, two years. I think looking back, reflecting on my life, childhood, college, a lot was reaction based. A lot was out of necessity. So now that I'm not necessarily to a comfortable place where I don't need to still do certain things, but where I'm a little bit less impacted by individuals, I'm now trying to figure out, okay, well who am I just naturally. If I were to go inside the forest and forth bathe for three weeks, I feel like who would you be without any cameras, without having to appease XYZ people, just who are you just naturally. Right. So yeah, still discovering that. I think a part of who I am is a.
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I don't know if a hard worker is the right hustler. I am a hustler. I'm a hard worker. I'm a visionary. I think dreamer is at the center. For sure.
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You would be if you were in the forest bathing for three weeks.
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You'd be doing a lot, tons of ideas. Yeah, you'd be.
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It would be like every hour. Hey, Sinclair.
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See, I think at my core I'm definitely a dreamer. At my core I think I'm not a healthy person per se, but I think I'm health conscious naturally, or at least active naturally. I'M a curious person, love to explore. So yeah, I think those are still elements of me that I'm discovering or rediscovering. Oh yeah, I'm hilarious. That's a fact. I have a great sense of humor, A wide sense of humor. You know, I can go dark humor, I can go politically correct humor, I can go politically incorrect humor. It can go all over the place. I'm just hilarious.
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Bet you are.
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That's a fact. And I think that, like, that part of me is something that's been covered not in the marriage, but in my identity as a business owner. Because I think I'm always trying to say the appropriate thing to not be offensive on social media or not be offensive in a meeting. But I think we've had conversations like when it's just me and you and I can just say whatever and I know I'm not gonna get judged hilarious. So yeah, I wish I can say more of that type of stuff without the fear of the being canceled, the persecution, whatever it is. But yeah, I'm hilarious.
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But then the follow up that like, who am I within the marriage is still something that I'm developing, but I do feel like there's things that I don't say or things that I don't do in the marriage because I don't want either you to be uncomfortable or I know that's not within our lifestyle now, or Sinclair wouldn't want to do that. So I was like, eh, all right, I don't bring it up or we don't do it, which some of it's good and I think some of it is not good. So it's a matter of finding out what that balance is. And I think that's one of the hardest parts of marriage is who are you and who are you in this marriage?
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How do you not necessarily blend the two, but how do you merge the two without losing pieces of who you were before the marriage? Some of it I think is developing and growing and I think some of it is compromising and people pleasing. So yeah, it's just a matter of finding, I think, that healthy balance and I think that's a hard, healthy balance to find. Go ahead, Queen.
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I know we have a follow up question, but before we get there, do you think that this is a struggle for all marriages or do you think that specifically because we have been together for so young, it's maybe a little bit more of a struggle with us because like you mentioned, we've really grown together so it's Hard to almost separate completely by our identities because, well, a lot of it we've developed being right next to each other.
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Yeah. So this. And I thought about this because of a conversation I had with someone at the dinner party, and she was basically saying, like, you know, this. My husband is my person. We've grown together. We know each other's pet peeves, We've learned each other. And at this point, you know, if they were to go, no, Lord forbid, I wouldn't want anyone else, like, to be 45 and go back out there. Like, I'm not changing for anybody else. I'm not, like, I'm me. So to that point and to your point, I think. I think it's a general thing. I think most marriages go through this, but I do think there's levels. I think the younger you are, the more identity merging there's going to because you all literally grew up and developed together.
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I think the older y'all are, the harder it is to merge those identities. But. And then I think possibly the harder it is to have a successful marriage because you're not willing to marriage.
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Less compromise. I think it's being willing to be made correct.
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And I think there's a part of the compromise that lends to a successful marriage. And I think there's a Probably a critical tipping point where I think you can compromise for so much, but then at some point, I think you start to overcompromise in either direction, and then it's unhealthy. So I think it's finding that nice balance of compromise and identity blending.
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It's interesting because I feel like at some point, then we will reach a point in our marriage where it's like, you know, for different scenarios where it'll be kind of that conversation of, I hear you. I understand. This is my line. Right. Of where I've compromised to this point. Hopefully we can figure out how we need to make this work. But this is the line of where I'm willing to compromise.
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To you, being vegan is like a hard line where it's like, devon, I'm not doing it. And it's like, me. It's not that I'm excited to be vegan. I just. I see the health benefits of it. So I'm like, I'm willing to do it. Where you're like, no, I just seen.
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Too many people who go that way and end up right back. So I'm just like, can we just skip that phase and just keep this? Like, why do we need to go through the phase of realizing, dang, no. Okay. There's some health benefits to, oh, I'm missing these critical nutrients and I need to come back. Like, can we just skip all that?
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Right.
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And just moderate more of where we're. Where we're currently at. Yeah. And of course, it's like, for me, I know this is like a side conversation, but like, if you turned vegan, I would be willing to support that. I couldn't. Especially if we have help one day with, you know, a chef or something like that. Do I want that to be forced upon me?
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No.
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No, I don't. So. But anyways, yeah, there are those lines where it's like, yes, I will do up until this. Right. But that's not something that I'm willing to compromise on. So it'll be interesting to see what those types of conversations look like.
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Right, right. So other side of the coin to you. What is the best part of marriage?
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The best part of marriage is having a built in best friend. Like, I think we've been blessed to find each other and like, you're literally my best friend. And like, just we can do. We can just sit here in the backyard and just have a good time just talking. And like, that is entertaining or that is fulfilling that I don't because I feel like I've had times where I've had that FOMO of like, especially like sometimes in high school, like when I'd be at the dance studio and it's like, oh, dang, I know my friends are out partying or whatever. Right. Which I. Not that I didn't love like my dance community, but, you know, I've had those times of like FOMO and. But I feel like whenever I'm with you, I don't feel that.
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I'm just like, I just, I want to be wherever Devon is and I'm happy there. Right. It's popping. I'm not really worried about what anybody else is doing, Even if they're across the world at the finest beach. I'm like, yes, I would like for us to be there. But I'm not like, oh, man. I'm just like, man, baby, we gotta go. It's like, it's like, I don't want to experience things without you because they're nothing. That's not the same. So I feel like, yeah, it's just fun having somebody that literally, whatever you're doing at any point in the day, like, you can have fun or at least, you know, have a good time. Yeah. I think that's the Most fun part is just having somebody that is around all the time. Your best friend's literally with you all the time.
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Love that.
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Yeah.
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I think that is. Not that it's unique to our marriage, but unfortunately, I don't think every marriage has that right. And I think within Covid, it really shed light on that because some people were stuck in the house with their. And I put the air quotes because were in the house and it wasn't a stuck.
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Right.
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It was like, oh, thank God. This finally.
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Right.
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Finally get more times together. Whereas other people are like, damn, I'm stuck in the house with my wife, with my husband all day. They're really getting on my nerves. And we saw divorces skyrocket because for the first time, you have to spend time with your person. So I think it's a huge blessing that we've been able to really travel the world, have tons of memories. Whether we're in the backyard, we're in Spain, Portugal, Cape Town is usually a good vibe. Dancing, chilling at the beach, meeting random people, not meeting random. Like, it's just. Yeah, it's always fun. That's good. Yep, it's good. That was kind of mine, so I need to shift it a little bit. And I think it's for me more so having the unconditional love from someone and acceptance from someone.
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I think, like, growing up, whether it's elementary school, I think I've gone through, like, a lot of ostracizing or being like the other person outside elementary school, middle school, high school, a little bit within my household, a little bit within family a little bit. So I think it was great to finally, like, be in a household and be with the person. I was like, oh, no, it's my person. She loves me. She accepts me. Short hair with waves, locks, Afro, beard, no beard. But she wants the beard. But yeah, it's good to, like, be able to go through all those different phases and still feel the same love. So, yeah, that would be probably my favorite part of marriage.
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I'm here for the long haul.
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Yeah. You want to cut my beard off?
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Yep. You felt the hesitation.
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Took a little breath. I'm look like a completely different person.
00:26:03.964 --> 00:26:13.894
I know. Can we do, like a. I'm sure this will be years from now, so there'll be AI to be able to take your face, take off the beard so we can see what it would look like beforehand. Like, do we really need to take the risk?
00:26:14.275 --> 00:26:15.227
Not the risk.
00:26:15.290 --> 00:26:19.923
I just feel like with technology, we could kind of see so you can be like, yeah, nevermind.
00:26:20.058 --> 00:26:28.386
I'm sure by then I can cut the beard off and it looks back. Sew it back on. Golly, though. Sew it back on or like glue it back on.
00:26:28.490 --> 00:26:29.411
You would want that.
00:26:29.482 --> 00:26:30.626
No, I wouldn't want that.
00:26:30.691 --> 00:26:31.019
Okay.
00:26:31.067 --> 00:26:34.532
You know, I'm willing to. It's the compromise for marriage. I got you.
00:26:34.628 --> 00:26:36.028
You shave it off. I'm still here.
00:26:36.116 --> 00:26:36.484
Yeah.
00:26:36.565 --> 00:26:44.184
You wake up a naked mole rat tomorrow, I'm still here. Look at you with the same.
00:26:45.444 --> 00:26:46.505
No, not even.
00:26:48.325 --> 00:26:50.045
Just take some time to get back there.
00:26:50.164 --> 00:27:09.654
Understood. Understood. But yeah, my plan is 60. When it's all grayed out, go ahead and cut it. I look 30 again. Mm, no. All right, think on it. Think on it. Let's see. Any other just like random questions, thoughts you have, you want to share here?
00:27:09.815 --> 00:27:15.782
I feel like there's something you said that I had a follow up question to, but it's lost me now.
00:27:15.878 --> 00:27:52.760
Okay, well, good. It was a nice chill conversation indeed. Look forward to having more conversation with you. Let's do a little. Cheers. Strong. Put that. What'd you put in that coffee? Some tequila in there? Huh?
00:27:52.952 --> 00:27:56.964
Mine was pretty much gone, so it's just like coffee grounds and protein.
00:27:57.384 --> 00:27:59.961
Coffee grounds and protein, but just stuff.
00:27:59.992 --> 00:28:03.913
Just getting cut in my throat. Man, this is gonna have some good bloopers this time.
00:28:03.969 --> 00:28:17.505
Oh, gosh. I've been married for 37 years. We met the first year of COVID Oh, good stuff. All right, what's next?